NZCS fears financial success from Conference
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Profit could be damaging as Society fights charity-status case
By Stephen Bell | Wellington | Wednesday, 1 September, 2010 | 7 Comments
The New Zealand Computer Society is in danger of making money from its 50th birthday celebrations in September.
The four-day conference to mark the anniversary of the start of computing in New Zealand is arousing a gratifying amount of interest and commitment.
Around 200 delegates have registered says CEO Paul Matthews, and he’s hoping those numbers will be bolstered to about 300 by the start date of September 15. This is very encouraging, given that it is outside the main cities and most delegates will need to travel to the conference venue, Rotorua, he says.
Asked about the likely financial outcome, Matthews is cautious. “We may just about reach break-even,” he says.
A financial surplus could be potentially damaging for the Society as it is currently fighting to have its charitable status restored. The Charities Commission de-listed the Society this year following eight months of submissions and counter-submissions. To qualify for charitable status an organisation must exist to serve the public good, and the Commission contends the Society exists for the advancement of the ICT profession. But the Society argues its primary function is education.
Matthews says that the anniversary conference is an educational event, placing it within the allowed purposes of a charitable body and that any surplus will be reinvested for educational purposes.
NZCS is set to appeal the Charities decision at a High Court hearing on November 22, so Matthews is constrained in what he can say on the matter; but much of the argument could revolve around the definition of “education”, he says. It has engaged lawyers Duncan Cotterill, at a discounted rate, to argue its case.
One important point according to Matthews is that increasing the knowledge of members of a profession is still education, even though they are already in paid work. The society’s non-educational activities such as professional networking events are “ancillary” to that purpose in the terms of the Charities Act, he says.
The New Zealand Act is based on UK legislation Matthews says and the British Computer Society is still classified as a charitable organisation, which he believes will be a point in favour of reinstatement for the society.
NZCS has applied to have itself put back on the charities register, pending the November court hearing. Other organisations to have been delisted this year which have filed High Court action include Team New Zealand and Greenpeace.
Comments
itcp
Agree with What needs to be a better way says.. Personally I never felt I got value for money from nzcs. And it certainly does not exist to "serve the public good". Its always portrayed itself as being for the advancement of the ict profession.
Posted by marty at 21:57:55 on September 1, 2010
Posted by marty at 21:57:55 on September 1, 2010
The Conference
As Chairman of the 50th Anniversary Conference I wish to clarify that the vast majority of the time and effort provided to run and improve the Society is done on a voluntary basis by members who pay an annual fee. If each of us charged for the time and effort contributed to assist the Society, then the loss would be hundreds of thousands of dollars. To be challenged for taking a risk and voluntarily producing a professional conference that might possibly deliver a modest surplus, is highly insulting
Posted by Elizabeth Eastwood at 14:47:30 on September 1, 2010
Posted by Elizabeth Eastwood at 14:47:30 on September 1, 2010
Charity and Surplus not mutually exclusive
Hi,
I just wanted to make one correction to this article.
NZCS does not fear financial success, we welcome it. Making a surplus in some activities is necessary, and in fact no charity or non-profit would last long if it made a deficit on all activities!
While the conference is aimed to be break-even, we do expect to make a very modest surplus (purely because the only other option is a loss, which we generally try to avoid), however any surplus that does come out of it then goes directly towards our educational activities. We have no shareholders - all our funds go towards our activities.
We're greatly looking forward to the conference in a couple of weeks - it's going to be great! Everyone is welcome (members and non-members alike), and the lineup is second to none - see www.innovation.org.nz/speakers
Thanks
Paul Matthews
Chief Executive, NZCS
Posted by Paul Matthews at 12:59:46 on September 1, 2010
I just wanted to make one correction to this article.
NZCS does not fear financial success, we welcome it. Making a surplus in some activities is necessary, and in fact no charity or non-profit would last long if it made a deficit on all activities!
While the conference is aimed to be break-even, we do expect to make a very modest surplus (purely because the only other option is a loss, which we generally try to avoid), however any surplus that does come out of it then goes directly towards our educational activities. We have no shareholders - all our funds go towards our activities.
We're greatly looking forward to the conference in a couple of weeks - it's going to be great! Everyone is welcome (members and non-members alike), and the lineup is second to none - see www.innovation.org.nz/speakers
Thanks
Paul Matthews
Chief Executive, NZCS
Posted by Paul Matthews at 12:59:46 on September 1, 2010
NZ Computer Society should not be a Charity
NZCS needs to be structured as an Institute rather than a Society. It would have a lot more credibility in the industry then.
Look at the Institutes for the Accountants, Directors etc., even the Law Society and way they operate within their respective professions.
What really annoys me that in order to obtain the ITCP certification, you need to join the NZCS first.
It should be the other way round, you need to pass the ITCP certification before you can become a full member - not be a full member for three years before you can complete the ITCP certfication.
Posted by There needs to be something better at 12:08:45 on September 1, 2010
Look at the Institutes for the Accountants, Directors etc., even the Law Society and way they operate within their respective professions.
What really annoys me that in order to obtain the ITCP certification, you need to join the NZCS first.
It should be the other way round, you need to pass the ITCP certification before you can become a full member - not be a full member for three years before you can complete the ITCP certfication.
Posted by There needs to be something better at 12:08:45 on September 1, 2010
NZ Computer Society should not be a Charity
Hi there,
Just to clarify a couple of points:
The Institutes of Directors/Accountants/etc are all incorporated societies.
Also, in almost all cases (such as the Accountants, Lawyers, Engineers, Architects, etc, etc) you must be a member of the professional body in order to obtain professional certification.
And lastly, to clarify, you don't need to be a member of NZCS for 3 years before completing ITCP. You can do them both at the same time.
Thanks.
Paul Matthews
Chief Executive
NZ Computer Society Inc
Posted by Paul M at 12:53:52 on September 1, 2010
Just to clarify a couple of points:
The Institutes of Directors/Accountants/etc are all incorporated societies.
Also, in almost all cases (such as the Accountants, Lawyers, Engineers, Architects, etc, etc) you must be a member of the professional body in order to obtain professional certification.
And lastly, to clarify, you don't need to be a member of NZCS for 3 years before completing ITCP. You can do them both at the same time.
Thanks.
Paul Matthews
Chief Executive
NZ Computer Society Inc
Posted by Paul M at 12:53:52 on September 1, 2010
NZ Computer Society should not be a Charity
Actually, the Institute of Chartered Accountants of New Zealand is incorporated by an Act of Parliament while the remaining professional bodies are also registered societies.
The point I was trying was to make, is the most of these professional bodies pay tax, certainly the Accountants and Directors do. The Accountants have their annual accounts at their website while the latest set of accounts for the Insitute of Directors can be found on the Incorporated Societies website.
In looking through the Incorporated Societies website, I do note that for the past two years, the New Zealand Computer Society has not filed annual accounts. Perhaps this has something to do with the Society losing its charity status?
Being both an IT Professional and Accountant by trade, I certainly found it easier to become a Chartered Accountant than a Certified IT Professional.
Yes, you do have to be a member of both before you can obtain the qualifications. In the case of NZICA you join as a provisional member and then your membership is changed to reflect the requirements you have passed.
When I looked first looked at ITCP when it was announced, I was unable to do the FastTrack process because I was not a member of the NZCS. If you look at the Australian Computer Society Membership levels, they have membership grades which fairly reflect membership eligibility.
Posted by There needs to be something better at 18:37:38 on September 2, 2010
The point I was trying was to make, is the most of these professional bodies pay tax, certainly the Accountants and Directors do. The Accountants have their annual accounts at their website while the latest set of accounts for the Insitute of Directors can be found on the Incorporated Societies website.
In looking through the Incorporated Societies website, I do note that for the past two years, the New Zealand Computer Society has not filed annual accounts. Perhaps this has something to do with the Society losing its charity status?
Being both an IT Professional and Accountant by trade, I certainly found it easier to become a Chartered Accountant than a Certified IT Professional.
Yes, you do have to be a member of both before you can obtain the qualifications. In the case of NZICA you join as a provisional member and then your membership is changed to reflect the requirements you have passed.
When I looked first looked at ITCP when it was announced, I was unable to do the FastTrack process because I was not a member of the NZCS. If you look at the Australian Computer Society Membership levels, they have membership grades which fairly reflect membership eligibility.
Posted by There needs to be something better at 18:37:38 on September 2, 2010
NZ Computer Society should not be a Charity
In regards to the ACS, I suspect you are getting membership and certification confused. They have a number of membership grades, as do NZCS, and with similar requirements. They also have a professional certification (CP - Certified Professional) which has similar requirements to ITCP (including a membership requirement).
The FastTrack Process was a limited-time ITCP option for those that had already completed the evaluation undertaken when they previously applied for full NZCS membership (or other equivalent body). This was available for 6 months only.
Now all ITCP applicants work through the same process, irrespective of whether they were previously NZCS members or not.
Note that as NZCS was a registered charity it was required to file returns with the Charities Commission rather than the register of Incorporated Societies.
Thanks.
Posted by Paul Matthews at 3:29:29 on September 5, 2010
The FastTrack Process was a limited-time ITCP option for those that had already completed the evaluation undertaken when they previously applied for full NZCS membership (or other equivalent body). This was available for 6 months only.
Now all ITCP applicants work through the same process, irrespective of whether they were previously NZCS members or not.
Note that as NZCS was a registered charity it was required to file returns with the Charities Commission rather than the register of Incorporated Societies.
Thanks.
Posted by Paul Matthews at 3:29:29 on September 5, 2010
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